Interview with Steve Sanguedolce by Geoffrey Gunn
April 5, 2001
The screen is black, but the sounds of an answering machine cueing up to playback can be heard. The playback heads engage, and the following is heard:
2 saved messages. First message, saved today at 12:04 pm. Hi Geoff, this is Steve Sanguedolce calling. It looks like I’m going to have to cancel on our meeting today. My seven month old son’s come down with a fever, and we’re here at the doctor’s office getting it checked out, but it looks like we’re gonna have to go down to the hospital, so I’m sorry about this and I hope you get this message in time. If you do, you can call me on my cell phone and maybe we can make other arrangements or something, okay? Bye.
Next saved message, saved today at 12:40 pm. Hi Geoff, it’s Steve again. Just finished up at the doctors and it looks like he’s gonna be okay and we don’t have to down to the hospital, so our meeting’s back on if you want, but you can call me on my cell phone, well, actually it’s my partner Jan’s cell phone, but you can call me on it if you can’t make it, otherwise, I guess I’ll see you in about 20 minutes. Bye.
INT. CAFÉ – EARLY AFTERNOON
STEVE, a film-type in his early 40’s, and GEOFF, a film-type in his early 20’s, rendezvous for the first time amidst a gaggle of espresso swilling Bay Street traders eager to experience the thrill of a smartly corporatized, Bohemian styled coffee bar.
STEVE
Is your name Geoff?
GEOFF
Yep. Steve?
STEVE
Yeah, Hi (they shake hands). Actually, do you mind waiting just a minute? I’ve gotta go tell Jan it’s okay and that you’re here.
GEOFF
Yeah, no problem.
EXT. STREET – 30 SECONDS LATER.
They step outside the café. Steve makes a light jog over to silver car idling against the curbside. A few words are exchanged through the open window to an unseen driver. The car pulls away, and Steve returns to the terrace of the café, where Geoff now stands, patiently sipping at a bottle of water.)
STEVE
Sorry about that. I didn’t know if you’d gotten my messages because, you know, my seven month old son woke up this morning just shrieking, and so we took him to the doctor’s and she was doing tests and we didn’t know if we’d have to take him to the hospital, but then it turned out we didn’t, so that’s when I left you the second message, because I didn’t know if you’d gotten my first message…
GEOFF
(Half interrupting) Well actually I guess I’m pretty lucky, because I haven’t been home yet, so I had no idea that you’d called. We were up at the OMDC this morning on a kind of a field trip…
STEVE
Oh yeah, and how was that…actually you know what, I need something to eat…
GEOFF
Sounds good…
STEVE
So whaddya say we go get a bite to eat somewhere, you know, where we can sit and talk…
GEOFF
That’s cool. I haven’t had lunch yet…
STEVE
Alright then, let’s go…
CUT TO:
Opening credit sequence. White and jittery, the credits play along with music, superimposed over a montage of STEVE and GEOFF walking down Queen St. West, Toronto, talking and looking periodically at the storefronts for a restaurant that will suit their needs Passing a pair of POLICE OFFICERS talking to a pair of KIDS dressed in punk inspired clothing, STEVE stutters in his step, turns back to survey the situation, then turns back to walk with GEOFF after an ambitious step towards the POLICE OFFICERS. At the corner of Queen and Peter STEVE stops, and points across the street. GEOFF nods, says a few words. STEVE nods in return and they cross the street, walk a little further down and enter a SMALL DINER with an ORANGE AWNING.
INT. DINER – EARLY AFTERNOON
Inside, the DINER is small, and at the moment, very empty. Only two other people, A WOMAN in the back and A MAN in the front offer their patronage to the diner at this point in time. GEOFF and STEVE enter, and after a moment of deliberating, take a small table across from the rotating-stool lined counter, reminiscent of something in between the malt shop in Grease and the kind of doughnut shop your Dad might have taken you to after hockey practice. Upon sitting down, one of the TWO OWNERS asks STEVE and GEOFF what they’d like. STEVE orders the CHICKEN TERIYAKI, GEOFF the CHEESEBURGER COMBO.
STEVE
So, okay, what are we doing here?
GEOFF
Well, basically, it’s an interview…
STEVE
It’s for class, right?
GEOFF
Yeah. Our assignment is to find someone working in a field, or, I guess, in the industry, that has parallel interests to ours, and then we’re supposed to contact them, arrange an interview, talk to them, network, I guess, and, well, get a feel for what maybe we can expect when we get out there.
STEVE
Okay, I see. So we just have this interview?
GEOFF
Sort of.
STEVE
How did you decide on me?
GEOFF
Well, Phil recommended you to me. Originally I had looked at maybe talking to Don Owen, or possibly doing an email thing with an editor at RES magazine that Phil knew, but then we met again, talked some more, tried to find someone with similar interests, so I told him I was into sound, and camera stuff, and I guess, well, darker films? So yeah, after that, that’s when he called you to set up the introduction between you and me.
STEVE
I see. Yeah, Phil’s a really great guy. I like Phil a lot. So he recommended me? Cool. What are you gonna do with this thing when it’s done?
GEOFF
Well, we have to write it up and hand it in…
STEVE
Oh, wow, so you’ve gotta keep track of all this?
GEOFF
Yeah, but I couldn’t get a tape-recorder today, so I guess, oh well…
STEVE
That’s okay. So you went down to the CFMDC? (GEOFF nods) No problem getting them to screen the films?
GEOFF
No
STEVE
Good. Yeah, that’s good. So what films did you end up watching?
GEOFF
Mm, I watched Woodbridge, Sweetblood, and Smack.
(BEAT)
STEVE
(Grins) So, basically, you watched every-other film.
GEOFF
I tried to go in chronological order…
STEVE
Woodbridge? Oh God. That film continues to haunt me!
GEOFF
Why?
STEVE
Well, I don’t know if I would have shown you that first…I think Rhythms of the Heart, which I think I mentioned to you on the phone…
GEOFF
Yep…
STEVE
I think I would have shown you that first. But anyway. You watched Smack? And, Sweetblood? Good.
GEOFF
Yeah. I don’t know what the problem with Woodbridge is though. I didn’t think it was terrible. I really liked parts of it.
STEVE
That’s good, but you know, well, Woodbridge was my first film, that sort of, what-the-fuck-do-I-do-now film that I made when I finished at Sheridan College, so to me at least, there’s a lot of mistakes in it…I’d just bought this camera, and I didn’t know how to use it, so some of the stuff, you know with all the shaking, that wasn’t intentional, that was a registration problem with the camera. But you know, I used it anyway…
GEOFF
But hey, like I said, I didn’t think it was that bad.
(The food arrives)
STEVE
Mmm. Looks good, but you know, looking around (leans in to GEOFF, and continues almost under his breath), if there’s one thing I learned when I was travelling, it’s that you never eat in an empty restaurant, especially when it’s quiet at lunch time. (Leaning back) But it does look good…
GEOFF
Could be worse, we could be having sushi..
STEVE
Yeah, that would be worse.
GEOFF
I’m sure we’ll be fine.
(They begin eating)
STEVE
So, what did you think of the films, in general?
GEOFF
I liked them, if that’s not too much of a non-committal answer for you.
STEVE
Well, hey, I’m glad. I just really wish you would’ve seen Rhythms of the Heart. It’s probably my most personal film, about a break-up. Now that’s a film that’s really raw. So much so, that I’m not sure I could watch it with an audience anymore. I mean, it’s got me in it in every way, fucking, laughing, crying, yeah, like everything. I mean, and when I set out to make it, it was supposed to be about music, but it ended up being about this relationship, and well, it’s gotten to the point now where I’m not sure I can even watch it. Well, maybe I can watch it, but not with an audience. I remember, when I was making it, it was under the NFB’s PAFPS program, which is now called FAP, I think because too many people were calling it the PAP program, but anyway, this was back when John Spotton was still alive, and I remember, because they were helping fund this thing, we had to screen our rough cuts over at the NFB, for John, who was one of producing partners, plus, another woman that was also partnered in the production of this stuff. Well, so there I am, standing in the back of the theatre, and I know that this woman is gonna hate this thing. I can just tell that it’s not her thing. And so we watch it, and the lights come up, and then, there’s silence, and finally, John says something. He asks the woman what she thought of the film, and you know, I’m back there ready to jump out and just take my film and say you know, just shut the fuck up, you don’t understand my film, get the fuck away from it, and then she says after a moment, that she’s never felt a more violent reaction towards a film, and that’s when John steps in and says, yes, and because of that, I think it’s one of the best films I’ve about a young couple’s relationship. And man, there I was just ready to take my film and run, but I didn’t But I think what I learned from making Rhythms of the Heart was that I wasn’t sure anymore of how personal I wanted to make my films. I still wanted to make personal films, but I don’t think I could’ve ever made a film as personal as Rhythms of the Heart again. So that’s when I began asking myself, how can I make personal films that I can still watch, and that are still personal? And I think that’s how I came up with Sweetblood, which you saw.
GEOFF
Um-hm
STEVE
You know, Sweetblood is really a story about abuse, but it’s pretty veiled. You know, not to say that I was abused, but my parents smacked me around, a lot, but I think in a way, by mixing real events with fictional events I was able to make a film that was both deeply personal and not too personal that I felt, overly open and exposed by watching it. And a lot of people tell me it’s my best film, but I think that’s because it’s short. It starts with text, a dream story, and then voice and then images, and you know, you’d have to be fucking Einstein to pull out all the layers in one screening, so I think that’s why it works. There are layers in it that make you want to watch it again, pull out the details. So yeah, I think that maybe that sort of film might be the right mix of personal and not so apparently personal, because at the end of the day, they’re all your stories, and it’s just how you’ve decided to tell them, but trying to find that way to tell them, that’s the hard part. I think, back when I started, just after finishing school, my biggest challenge was you know, trying to figure out how to build a language with the camera, to get at a lot of these personal issues. And in the beginning, a lot of it was learning through mistakes, but you know, like Brakhage said, you’ve gotta learn by doing. You know, you see film students out there now with their lighmeters, taking readings everywhere, but Brakhage was like, don’t use a fucking lightmeter! You’ve got to learn how to see with the camera, and the only way to learn is to make mistakes with it. But now everyone’s afraid to make mistakes, the thing they don’t realize though, is that you can work through your mistakes, and you’re all the wiser for it. Here’s an example. I was shooting this documentary, it had to do with mental illness, and it was, you know, a low down dirty project, but we knew what we wanted to do, so we were doing it. Anyway, we were shooting interviews, just one per 400ft. reel, so you know, the director had his questions, and the subject was there, but if he went over the 11 minutes, well then, that was the end, and we figured we’d get enough usable footage doing it this way. So we’re interviewing this man who’s labeled a schizophrenic, and I remember he just sat there, very still in his chair, stroking this cat, and he talked very, very quietly. Of course, the sound is shit, so the sound guy tells him, okay, John, we need you to speak louder when we do the interview, and John’s like, okay, okay, but you know he’s gonna trail off. So we shoot the interview, the director asks his questions, John talks, and as the take goes on, he gets quieter and quieter, but you know that’s what we expected. Anyway we finish the take, and I go to take the mag off and boom, the mag door pops open, and I’m thinking, shit!, so I just slam the mag shut, and I’m really pissed off at myself, because we didn’t have any money, so we’ve gotta cross our fingers that we can get something out of this. So we get the roll back from the lab, get it synched, and we watch it, and it starts out fine, the exposure’s good, and here’s the thing, John’s talking loudly here, and then, slowly, as if we’d meant to, the film starts to lighten, just a little at first, but at about the same time as John starts to quiet down. Well, by the end of the reel, you can barely hear him, and of course, the picture’s almost totally blown out, because the light hit the outside of the roll and moved in, right, but man, what we thought was a ruined roll, wasn’t ruined at all. It worked, and in a way we could never have planned.
(BEAT)
Yeah, I thought I’d change the world with that film, but no one saw it. But I don’t know…I don’t know if it’s naïve of me, but whenever I start a film, I think I’ll change the world with it, and then by the end of the whole thing, I swear to myself that I’ll never make another. But I do, and I go through the whole thing all over again, and then, more often than not, the films just end up sitting on a shelf, occasionally making the run out along the academic circuit. You know, the CFMDC’s great, but really, that’s primarily who they cater to, is academic institutions. And now when I think about it, I really have to think, do I want to make another film that sits on the shelf? Like with Smack, a lot of people tell me it’s my best work, but when I send it out to festivals, half the time they don’t know what to categorize it as. Is it experimental? Is it a doc, is it fiction? Well, with Smack it was really hard, because it was an hour, a stupid length for a film, because, where does it fit in? It’s not a short, it’s not a feature, so what you end up with is a lot of programmers who love your film but can’t find a place for it.
(BEAT)
It’s tough though. I never got into this because I wanted to be a big time filmmaker or anything. I could never do drama, or at least synch-sound drama. I love docs, and I think that’s where most of the really interesting work out there in film is happening, but there’s still a lot of shit. But there’s good drama being made too, and experimental. A lot of it is shit, and it’s really a lot of preaching to the converted, and I’m not sure I see where it can go…so yeah, I couldn’t work with a huge crew running around me all the time. Making films, for me, is a very personal processes. Not even personal, it’s private. For me, the shutter is like the blinking of my eye, and for all my uncertainty about my films sitting there on the shelf, I’ve got 15000 ft (7 hours) of film sitting at home, ready to go, so I know that even if I don’t admit it right now, I’ve got at least one more film in me, and then, well, then it’s on to the digital stuff, which is looking better and better.
GEOFF
Yep. I shot a project on Mini-DV this year.
STEVE
Looks good, doesn’t it?
GEOFF
I really liked it. It’s really versatile, really fast.
STEVE
Yeah, I’ve really been impressed with what I’ve seen done with it lately.
STEVE and GEOFF have just about finished their food, when STEVE looks up to see that a GROUP OF 5 MACHO-LOOKING, EX-JOCK TYPE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS have surrounded the table. They look unhappy with the artistic content of the conversation, and seem poised to act on such unhappiness.
STEVE
What do you say we go grab a coffee, maybe somewhere else? (Whispering) I have a feeling there might be some trouble if we stay here…
GEOFF
Sure, that’s no problem
STEVE and GEOFF rise to leave, but the FOREMAN of the group pushes STEVE back into his chair.
FOREMAN
Hold it there, Skinny. You ain’t goin’ nowhere ‘til you tells me an’ the boys here what you think you’re doin’, talkin’ ‘bout “personal films” in this here place.
STEVE
It’s a free country…
FOREMAN
That’s where you’re wrong…
The FOREMAN takes a wild swing at STEVE, but STEVE evades his punch and, taking advantage of the FOREMAN being off-balance, smashes his mostly clean plate over the unnecessarily aggressive head of the FOREMAN. The rest of the FOREMAN’S GANG start to raise a ruckus, but GEOFF, using his deep reservoir of KUNG-FU abilities, dispenses the hooligans while STEVE finishes the FOREMAN. With the thugs conquered, much applause is heard from the DINER STAFF on account of our heroes, who then, after a fond farewell, retire to a small coffee house for a round of victory cappuccinos.
INT. CAFÉ – LATE AFTERNOON
STEVE and GEOFF sit at a window table, sipping cappuccinos. In the late afternoon sun, they regale themselves with reflections on the rumble in the diner, after which, STEVE imparts one final anecdote to GEOFF.
STEVE
A student of mine once asked me, Steve, you’re such an upbeat and funny guy, why is it that all your films seem to be so focused on the dark side of human behaviour? I had to think about it before I answered him, but I came to what I think, is the answer. I told him that I don’t make films concerned with the things I find funny, because I don’t have to figure that kind of stuff out. But the darker side of life, that’s the side I need to figure out, and I do that, or at least try to, through the films I make.
FADE TO BLACK
CUT TO:
The reels of out-takes captured during the process of the interview, especially those that shed light on the merging of fact and fiction in new narrative structures, as well as an extensive hi-light reel of the Kung-Fu bloopers that occurred during the diner brawl choreography. This all plays back in split-screen with the production credits while “Rock You Like a Hurricane” by the Scorpions plays in the background.
THE END